It is unfortunate that Dr. Koenraad Elst who has done sterling work in the last two to three decades on behalf of the Hindu cause has let his impatience get the upper hand and engage in castigating Hindus for their perceived tardiness in dealing with the question of Dalit rights. The present writer has already responded in a previous article ‘When Non-Hindus try to defend Hindus‘ (Bharata Bharati, Aug. 29, 2012) by observing that a great deal of work has already been undertaken by Hindus on that question (more needs to be done). Despite that, the efforts of asuric forces are powerful not because they have any reasonable arguments or because of failure of Hindus to present their case, but because of the power of the almighty dollar/pound/euro, as you will and their overweening desire to control and subjugate.
It was also pointed out by the present writer that a non-Hindu such as Dr. Elst (and Mark Tully) cannot fully understand the Hindu mind-set. This is simply a reality and pointing that out is not intended as an insult. In fact, taking that into account is important in evaluating what such individuals have to say. The reader is referred to the above article to be informed of the arguments supplied there.
But two points must be clarified: first, Dr. Elst’s sudden eruption against a significant Hindu woman intellectual and thinker Srimathi Radha Rajan is puzzling. Whether one agrees with all of her views, Ms. Radha Rajan remains one of the outstanding, outspoken Hindu women critics of the present UPA government, run by an alien Italian Catholic, and the general corruption and malaise of the Congress Party. Her past work on corruption and the misunderstandings and misrepresentations of Indian history are already there. In addition, her recent work The Eclipse of the Hindu Nation is a remarkable reading of the freedom struggle from a Hindu perspective. The present writer recalls that Dr. Elst himself provided a favourable review of that work.
It is therefore with some dismay that many Hindus on the scene view his present personal attack on Ms. Rajan’s intellectual failures (see his article ‘Rejoinder: The Art of Making Enemies‘, Bharata Bharati, Aug.31,2012).
She has rightly criticised those whom she sees as betraying the Hindu cause (that does not seem to include Dr. Elst).
The second point that must be clarified is that no serious person can criticise Dr. Elst for presenting the bleak picture that non-Hindu foreigners have of the caste system. However, despite the best efforts of Hindus to explain the situation, the asuric forces wilfully distort the picture because it is in their political interests to do so. It is in this context and past history that both Ms. Rajan and others have continued to speak of white racism. En passant, it might be useful for Dr. Elst to continue on his own most excellent trajectory, rather than focus on Hindu shortcomings in dealing with foreign criticisms. The brown sahibs and the brown Christians who follow the Church’s attack on Hinduism are simply following their master’s voice and can therefore be legitimately included in the ‘white racist’ category. These despicable individuals may laugh at their success (as Dr. Elst claims) but it is a hollow laughter. The Veda and Agama will not be defeated, although in their nefarious enterprises these brown clergy may cause suffering and sorrow to the aam admi. It would be helpful if Dr. Elst would without reservations join in our specific struggle, rather than pontificate from afar.
His trajectory is somewhat different from ours. With his academic training and erudite mind and as a Westerner (forgive stating the obvious) it is highly desirable that he undertake a critique of the pretensions of Christianity, a critique which Hindus may not be in the best position to undertake, whether it is karma or genes or whatever else. Perhaps too, we may not be as learned as Dr. Elst in this field! The Hindu has always been reluctant to criticise another’s faith when it is perceived as a universal theology. Should we imitate Adi Shankara on his triumphant Digvijaya tours? You bet many a Hindu would like to do that, but many have not succeeded to date in that task and in fact have given up halfway! Dr. Elst is already well versed in Christian theology and it would be most helpful if he could undertake that task without further delay.
Hence, instead of lecturing/hectoring Hindus for perceived inadequacies, it would be wiser of Dr. Elst to continue his own exemplary work.
As for Hindus, it is important that they follow their own trajectory. Friends and allies are always welcome, but the task is ours in the final analysis.
And this task is also determined by our past history and our present engagements. The Veda has never condoned caste (Dr. Elst recognises that).
And untouchability, the context of the Dalit problem, was a later development, according to scholars, around 300 BCE Dr. Ambedkar’s accounts are interesting but not particularly helpful. His original thesis is that the Dalits were Shudras who refused to follow the diktats of the Brahmins and were degraded into untouchability. Although, some scholars have speculated that like the helots in Sparta, these were captured slaves etc.
The distinction between varna and jati has been made by innumerable Hindu writers (Dr. Elst himself has written a short article on the topic in Hinduism Today, 1993). And the jati as the basis of India’s prosperity, similar to the guilds of Europe is also a well-known fact. Scholars such as Dr. S. Kalyanraman of the Saraswati Research Centre have written about this topic. And the jati continues to be the basis of the retail trade in India, in small and medium businesses. These are under attack from the purveyors of Walmart.
And since the asuric forces have a dual strategy of concealing their historic evils and present ones by finger-pointing at the failures of Hindu society, it is important for Hindus to continue to write about THEIR historic evils (notwithstanding kindly advice). This is not only a moral imperative but is also good strategy. It is surprising that Dr. Elst (otherwise shrewd in his assessments) fails to see that. Tried and tested methods must be adhered to, even while welcoming relevant new suggestions.
All the above is well-known and one need not retrace our steps here. Our present engagement requires not only continuing to deal with the Dalit question both nationally and at international forums, but it also requires that we do not forget our moorings which is Hinduism. This is a strength that is not available to non-Hindus, and it is vitally important that we do not allow their impatience with Hindu attitudes to deprive us of this strength.
It was very moving to see a comment on the article (When non-Hindus try to defend Hindus) from a Hindu which said: I know Brahmins who will not eat their food until they know that no one in their vicinity is starving.
This is known in Hindu parlance as annadanam. These are the small mercies that a non-Hindu cannot relate to. Many such instances can be multiplied. They are a reminder that Hindus cannot/should not forget their moorings, and be enticed by glamourous sounding solutions.
» The writer is a Political Philosopher who taught Political Philosophy at a Canadian university.
See also
-
Rejoinder: The art of making enemies – Koenraad Elst
-
Caste: The view from Belgium – Koenraad Elst
-
Dalits and racism in anti-Hindu propaganda – Koenraad Elst
-
When non-Hindus try to defend Hindus – Vijaya Rajiva
Filed under: india | Tagged: caste, caste system, dalits, discrimination, ethics, globalisation, hindu, hindu causes, hindu defence, hindu mind, hindu traditions, hindu-bashing, hinduism, hindutva, human rights, india, koenraad elst, mark tully, philosophy, politics, psychological warfare, racial discrimination, racism, religion, rituals, scheduled castes, untouchable |
BHARATA BHARATI 
COMMENTS ON THIS POST PAGE ARE CLOSED.
As Dr. Rajiva wishes to continue the debate, comments may be posted on her new article ‘Hindus should stick with tried and tested methods’ at
https://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/hindus-should-stick-with-tried-and-tested-methods-vijaya-rajiva/
Comments should be made in the comments box below the article. If they are sent to the Ishwar Sharan in-box, they are liable to be published (or not) without further notice to the sender.
And do not tell the editor later that it was a private correspondence! There is no private correspondence vis-à-vis this debate as the editor himself is under attack by the harridans of Hindu Dharma for giving Dr. Elst space and for a number of other real and imagined shortcomings — such as being born a white bastard rather than a brown one.
LikeLike
It is from your latest comment to Vijaya Rajivaji that I came to know of Sita ram Goel being a victim of backstabbing by Girilal Jain. It is only now that I understand why the name of Girilal Jain was there in the list of journalists who were on the congress payroll for buttressing emergency. I have shared this link with you.
http://www.eng.chauthiduniya.com/black-sheep-of-indian-journlism-exposed/
I do not know if you remember this or not.
Swami one request. Please do not renounce the Internet. You have done great service to the cause of Hinduism and Hindus will suffer irreparably by this decision of yours. I am a regular reader of your blog and I will certainly miss Bharata Bharati very much.
LikeLike
Sir, thank you for your kind and thoughtful words.
I think Dr. Elst would agree that he does not know the ground reality in India and therefore cannot make a well informed opinion of the immediate circumstances we are in.
This website was started as a memorial to Sita Ram Goel whom I have great love and respect for and whom I regard as a guru. With SRG and myself it was a complete meeting of minds and heart. All ideas were of interest to him as they were to me. At the time we met very few Hindus were doing serious intellectual work and even less were interested in investigating Christianity and the Church. Today things are different. Hindu intellectuals are well informed about Christian ideology and the Church though they still have some blind spots about the Church in India because it is made up of Indians like themselves and they don’t want to touch it. But what really disturbs me is the rigid dogmatic position some of these well informed Hindu intellectuals have taken and their violent refusal to allow any space for a different perspective or dissenting view (and KE will certainly have a different perspective and maybe a dissenting view). This is not acceptable to me. I am not formally educated and have educated myself by going through a lot of different ideas and experiences before accepting one that is positive and true and useful in my search for truth and Sri Devi’s grace (they are the same thing I believe). My experience is that we can learn from everybody even our detractors. And I am sure SRG would agree though he was highly educated with a masters degree in history who spoke half a dozen languages and could read original texts in Arabic and Urdu and even some Greek.
What I am saying is that I will on occasion publish material that I do not fully understand or agree with (this does not include KE’s current article which I find valuable) because I believe that the visitors to this site can learn something from it. And I will not bow to threatening and dictatorial Hindu spokespersons of whatever social or academic standing who think they can bully me into presenting their point of view to the exclusion of all others. They may be learned and important people, but ultimately they don’t count with me — though I respect much of their work — and they have no authority on this web site at all. I will listen to sincere advice and reasoned argument, but self-indulgent rants or carefully crafted letters of excommunication meant to demean and demoralise and give out false information for public consumption I will not tolerate.
Every sadhu learns a special lesson he never dreamed of before his diksha. It is that EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS BETTER about sannyasa and what a sannyasi should do than does he himself. At the same time none of these opinionated know-it-alls have dared to take the step into sannyasa themselves, not even a baby step.
Please continue with your comments and posts. They are very much appreciated. But please take the time to post at the appropriate article and in the appropriate comment box and not just anywhere. All comments come into my email in-box and the web site dashboard and I will always find them. But comments posted inappropriately may get moved or deleted. This site also has a public e-mail which anybody can use at bharatabharati@yahoo.in
LikeLike
Ishwar Sharan ji (I hope that is what IS stands for), I am nobody to advise a great scholar like you, I am too illiterate in these matters. After my retirement, I have spare time and use that time to study Bhagwadgeeta, Hinduism, Upanishads and try to keep track of what is happening in this area. You are as it is doing a great job of hosting and editing a website and serving the cause of Hinduism. It takes courage to publish comments critical to oneself. I suppose that was what Shastraartha was in the olden times.
LikeLike
IS, as a Dasanami Sanyasi, you should not bother about the external world. There will be criticism, sometimes very vituperative. The Bairagya in you must drive a big black hole in your senses to sink these comments. There is big difference between you and Elst. Elst is an academic scholar living in the West. I do not know how much Sanskrit or Tamil he is conversant with. You are living in India, experiencing India. There is a big difference between one who experiences and one who is an academic and comments. I would like to give you an example. I met a Sanyasi ( very few of the good ) in Hare Krishna. He wanted to become a Sanyasi at a late age after his stint as a Assistant Prof in a leading divinity school in USA (Not Harvard). The reasons which he gave me for joining Hare Krishna was very interesting. Hare Krishna you become a Sanyasi at late age. Even though I oo not agree with the preachings of Hare Krishna , this academic turning sanyasi was interesting.
The Hare Krishnas Sanyasi who had PhD in philosophy , left the divinity school as he found none of the academics knew Sanskrit, Tamil. They were not proficient in any of the Indian languages. The academics relied entirely on translations in English of the orientalists of 19th-20th century India. His contention was that to do research and comment on Indian reilgions , the academics must go to the root , basics and they must know Sanskrit, Tamil or the languages I told him that is the premise for anyy research be it science , arts or humanities. You have to get your basics right. Now this is not happening in divinity schools researching Hinduism in almost all divinity schools in the West. I gave this analogy to convince you that for you India is right there with you, for Elst India is far off. For you there is only fine line between the rope and snake discrimination, whereas for Elst as an academic ( he may not be one now), the line is not as fine as it is for you, Elstian perception will be not as discriminating as your ” experience” of Indian air. Please continue your work. Your book on St Thomas was very well edited. Arise and awake and rest not till your goal is reached.
LikeLike
Shri Rajaram, the fundamental difference between you, GP Srinivasan and others of your ilk is that I do not cross certain lines even when I argue strongly. This crack about Stalinist habits exposes your Macarthian bent of mind Sir. You have to label me Stalinist and you also called me a Russian Spy earlier because I learnt the Russian language and speak it well. I request you to explain why you accuse me of suppresio veri and suggestio falsi.
As I told you before i grew up in a lower middle class brahmin family where money was scarce and my father’s family responsibilities huge. I had a love for literature and languages and Russian was the only language that was taught free in the years when I was a teenager. I managed to leran German by doing excellently in all exams whenever I could so that my next month’s fee was waived. I couldnt do that always but enough times to pay my fee from the paltry 300rupees I was earning as teacher in a school in Chennai at 19 years of age.
I have always been told by my dear friends that I am not ruthless enough when dealing with some people. I cannot be because the animal world has taught me what ahimsa really is – not the Gandhian variety. This is my last warning to you Sir to keep arguments civil. I may be forced to shed my restraint next time you have nothing to say and you stoop low.
LikeLike
Oh, the ladies are bullies, don’t ever doubt that. You just have not crossed them yet or provoked them to bite you. You are a PIO living abroad which is an important category on their hate list. Just read the letters EXCOMMUNICATING me that RR and SJ have sent each other (published above). These letters are exactly the same type and tone and content that Fr. Bede Griffiths sent to the Indian bishops when he discovered that I was a white bastard — like himself! — and not a “real” Indian sannyasi.
Marxism is a Christian heresy and ideologically set up exactly like the Church with the exclusion of Jesus as god (he is replace by History). So Indian Marxists/Communists act and think just like their Christian parent. I should have known about these ladies and their ideological bent of mind, but I am not politically astute and take people at face value until they prove themselves otherwise. SJ’s family is related to SRG’s family by marriage and caste (she is the Jain side, SRG was the Vaishnava side). SJ’s father was a Communist and friends with SRG. But when he was editor of the TOI, he stabbed SRG in the back and would not allow him to reply to an attack that had been published in the TOI paper. SRG never had much respect for SJ’s family as they were meat-eating Jains. SJ herself had a favourite Muslim kebab shop in the market that she would visit with her college friends. She may have changed her eating habits today as she pontificates on ahimsa and vegetarianism, but she hasn’t changed her thinking processes which she inherited from her father.
Why I am going into this is to make the point that many so-called Hindu activists are in fact not practising Hindus. They are all old Communists and related ideologues who use Hindu activism as a front to continue their out-dated marxist/stalinist campaigns. This surprised me when I first discovered it. I think Dr. Rajaram is right when he points to RR’s Communist background which, I believe, has morphed into that of a devout Vaishnava present. But her thinking processes and responses remain stalinist; she believes she can bully and intimidate anybody into complying with her own point of view.
What I asked SJ the other day, which apparently offended her, was why with the vast Sanskrit literature we have on culture and politics, Hindus have never been able to formulate a modern political ideology that represents Hindu values. KE has rightly pointed to the Christian Democrats in Germany, who have a political manifesto that represents their modern Christian values. He has pointed to it as a model for a modern Hindu politcal ideology. But there are no Hindu takers. Hindus still go for obsolete and discredited Marxism in one form or another. It is very hard for me to understand this as I see Hindu Dharma and Marxist ideology in contradiction to each other.
Hindu activists and thinkers rightly hate white Christian imperialism (as do I which is why I left the West), but they still gravitate to white western thinkers and ideologues. To me this is an absurd contradiction that cannot be explained rationally. Look at the list of intellectuals in SJ’s letter. Not an Indian or Asian among them. All white and some are Israeli (another hate category among SJ’s ideological friends). How to explain this schizophrenia operating in the Hindu psyche and manifesting itself in hate comments against other Hindus?
But enough of this.
I am about to renounce the Internet. Do you know a REAL Hindu intellectual who wants to take over Bharata Bharat?
LikeLike
Ishwarji, you did the right thing in defending the ladies as you call them. I have not to date found them bullying or trying to twist my arm. I also respect their committment to Hindus. But they do fight back when unjustly attacked (not literally!).
Elst can stay in his ivory tower, but the impression is gaining ground that he is out of touch with what is going on. And certainly his latest sally against two respected Hindu women who are doing their own bit for the Hindu cause is not being viewed favourably. They may not post on websites but they are certainly beginning to be annoyed with his uncalled for intervention.
I see no reason for you to do any mea culpas any longer. You have already explained a very legitimate reason for you as editor to reprint something which you thought might be relevant. We should leave it at that.
I, for one would regret if you left the internet. Perhaps that is what is intended as your karma, as a dasanami sannyasin, the order created by Adi Sankara himself to defend Hinduism, among other things and continue defending Hinduism on the internet !
You have done a most excellent job, and although I am not religious, I too feel we should leave it all now with Sri Devi. Things will work out. Let us leave this particular contentious issue now.
Hope you had a chance to read my article ‘ A Critical Examination of Shri Aurobindo’s Secret of the Veda’ at Vijayvaani.
LikeLike
You are now the devil’s advocate, Dr. Rajiva. We now know — even this dumb white editor now knows — what Comrade Radha Rajan is saying with her not-so-coded comments.
And by the way, Radha Rajan started using the term “Generic Church” only after this dumb editor privately complained to her years’ ago about her racist term “White Church” which he was uncomfortable with and which is untrue anyway as there never has been a White Church in history.
And, yes, it is racist terminology that she and Comrade Jain use in their discourse — no ifs or buts about it. It is part of the bullying tactic they employ with people they want to intimidate and put on the defensive — the people they want to control and control and control and finally defeat.
LikeLike
I think what Radhaji was saying is that it is in the interests of the Church to focus attention on Muslim threats (exclusively) so that their own diabolic plans are masked. Precisely what they are doing in focussing attention on the Dalit question exclusively so that they can surreptitiously carry on their plans of conversion.
LikeLike
So Islam is not terrorist and no threat to Hinduism. Who ever supported the Church? I have repeatedly said that Christians in India must be told that they cannot expect Hindus to defend them against Islam.
So there is no religious war being waged by Islam against Hindus, but only a racial war!
This is Goebbelsian propaganda — used by Stalin also. YOU ARE SO PREDICTABLE– SUPPRESSIO VERI SUGGESTIO FALSI. Old Stalinist habits die hard.
LikeLike
This must be music to the Generic Church. This is exactly the kind of public discourse they want – islam as terrorist and church as warrior against terrorist. We are so predictable.
LikeLike
Quite right, Kishan! I accept the reprimand too and will work on the egotism with Sri Devi’s blessing and help (as already indicated in my last message to Dr. Rajiva).
But how do you edit a website without an ego? Please tell!
LikeLike
As I posted the article, I must be held responsible for Dr. Elst’s rejoinder — isn’t it?
I have no correspondence with him even till today. I don’t know and cannot presume to tell him what to do. He knows best how to deal with gratuitous and unjust attacks from self-styled, self-righteous raving Hindu activists.
He may consider not to lecture barking dogs as they will only bark louder (barking dogs is a political category by the way, not a term of abuse).
I defended these ladies when they came under attack from Malhotra and your buddy Kalyanaraman. Now it is my turn to get stung by them. I was warned many times over about their stalinist — should I say putanist — propensities, their belief that they can bully and intimidate anybody they wish to get their own way. But I have (should I say had) a sincere feeling for their work for Dharma and supported them as best I could considering my limitations as a very dumb white man who has no special political insight at all and tends to believe any rubbish he is told by someone he has come to trust.
But I am not here to justify myself. Stupidity is not tolerated by stalinists — sorry, putanists — and I have just learned my lesson the hard way.
In fact I have been wanting to leave the Internet and its maya for some time now and return to my sadhana full time. I can now do so with a clear conscience and without regrets.
LikeLike
Ishwarji, I beg to differ. Both are outstanding Hindu women. They are being treated badly. Both have good reason to feel offended by the Elst rejoinder. Things are not going to be set right unless Elst offers a mild apology and has the grace to say that he is sorry that his arguments have offended Hindus.
I find the articles both in Vijayvaani and Vigilonline instructive, informative and useful. Elst’s comments about alleged misunderstandings are uncalled for.
Ofcourse, Elst may have a lordly indifference to their feelings or to that other Hindus. That is another matter.
But I do protest. I will not be writing again for Bharata Bharati on this topic, unless some new provocative material is presented by Elst. I hope he realises that silence is golden.
If indeed he is sincere, he will try to avoid skirmishes with allies and the very people he wants to help. That is exactly what the generic Church is looking for, and there is no need to make their task easier by our stupidities.
LikeLike
I consider myself too small to comment on the dialogue of the ‘giants’ here. But what these comments and counter comment indicate to my limited intelligence is that these giants have giant egos too, they don’t seem to have read the Bhagwadgeeta or have not imbibed its teachings.
Or is it an old Hindu trait; keep fighting amongst ourselves rather than jointly fighting the enemy ?
LikeLike
Emperor Constantine to Joanne Herring ( Charlie Wilsons wife), religion was the imposed symptom and imperialism the sure shot disease. Both Christianity and Islam have followed each other all over the globe to implement this twin objective. As Naipaul, very rightly observes in “Among the Believers”, “A convert rejects his origins by impulse.” To prove Naipaul, one has just to read the squeals of converts like John Dayal. He has John in front and Dayal he has left behind. When it comes to defend his “Dayal ” when Muslims create a rumpus in Assam, he becomes impulsive as Naipaul writes and rejects what the descendants of his ancestors are talking about. The same front named John with no Dayal behind, but Dayle, is up in arms against the religion of peace in the West. So in India our own John decides ” enemy’s enemy is my friend”
If there was time travel for going back in time, I would love Emperor Julian win over Emperor Constantine. IS would the symptom and disease been carried over as package deal down in time.
LikeLike
Whether the ladies ever acknowledge they have learned something from Dr. Elst doesn’t matter because they have not yet grown up. Their tantrums and conspiracy theories are proof enough that they are still immature children of an age that does not respect elders anyway.
LikeLike
Glad that you clarified the issue of why the 2007 was being dredged up now.
I do not know if my esteemed friends ever considered themselves pupils of Dr. Elst ! At any rate once the pupils are grown up, it is important that the master treats them with respect.
Let us for now forget the 2007 article, and look at the Elst article ‘Rejoinder : the art of making enemies’ was written two or three days ago !
It shows an Elst that has become antagonistic to Radhaji whom I consider one of the leading Hindu women intellectuals. We need more like her. Both the tone and substance of his rejoinder are, in my opinion, quite offensive. He may wish to consider a mild sort of apology. It is not a good sign if non Hindus start arrogating themselves to some superior position of ‘instructing’. And the question of whether their world view (being non Hindu) must always be accepted. Yes, we can read them and learn some things from them but they cannot be accepted as gospel truth.
As Hindus we have a special responsibility to Hinduism and the land. That responisbility includes not only welcoming non Hindus who are sympathetic to our cause, and also listening to them with some care and attention. But beyond that it becomes something else.
Your role in publishing the 2007 article is understandable. You are an editor and as you said, you are looking for suitable articles.
Speaking of which and in order to close this unpleasant and needless chapter, I refer you to my new article in Vijayvaani : ‘ A Critical Examination of Shri Aurobindo’s Secret of the Veda’.
I was surprised (pleasantly) at observer’s comment.
LikeLike
Dr. Elst had nothing to do with the publication of the article. I published it on my own without consulting him. I do not correspond with him and do not know if he would have approved of the re-posting. I am always looking for reference material that may serve the Hindu cause at some point, and I often go to the Voice of Dharma website looking for it.
I do not regret publishing the article even if it has enraged my once respected friends (all gone now, maybe for the better), as there will be Hindu readers who see its value and benefit from it.
But I do very sincerely regret bringing the bricks down on Dr. Elst’s head. I had no idea the article would cause such a furore and cause him to be attacked by his own students — yes, students: we have all learned something valuable from Dr. Elst and it is the Hindu way to acknowledge the teacher with gratitude.
So the blame stops here. Attack the dumb white editor if you like, but don’t attack Dr. Elst anymore because he had nothing at all to do with the crime.
LikeLike
Ishwarji, by now my own head is spinning because I cannot keep up with the timing of responses. I now checked the timing of Radhaji’s reply and it is clear that she is responding to Elst’ s ‘Rejoinder: The Art of Making Enemies’.
My objection to the above Elst article (the second in the series) is that he attacks (not literally!) a Hindu woman who is an outstanding intellectual and worker for the Hindu cause. It is not clear why he is dredging up old battles, if there were any at all ! My impresssion is that he and Radhaji are old friends and colleagues. As I say in my article, he wrote a good review of her book Eclipse of the Hindu Nation.
SO WHY THIS NEW FANGLED ANIMOSITY.
And my liberal friend’s question remains: why did he want republication of the 2007 article. Even assuming it is a belated response to the 2010 British Parliament bill including caste in racism, it is two years late !
A feeling is beginning to spread amongst Hindu circles that Elst is going beyond his mandate of helping the Hindu cause. This may be the schoolmaster in him !
LikeLike
Dr. Rajiva, your first paragraph is not at all clear to me. I have put Radha Rajan’s tirade in this column as it was obviously provoked by Dr. Rajaram’s comment, also posted in this column.
I had asked everybody to post their comments in the appropriate comments box below the articles, but as nobody complies with the request I have to post the comments myself which is technically quite difficult. I have also informed everybody that all mail received in my IS in-box is liable to be published without further notice. Nobody can claim they weren’t warned of my intention.
But it is now out of the bag that I have been set up by Sandhya Jain as I don’t conform to her political agenda (whatever it is; it is still not clear to me), so whatever I do now will be seen as mistaken and wrong and further proof — as if it were needed — of the white man’s evil conspiracy to bring India down.
I may get the postings right or I may get them wrong, but frankly I don’t care any longer. As the conniving white bastard who edits this web site, I do the best I can with the tools — and fools — available.
LikeLike
To IS and to Dr. Rajaram
Iswharji, your chronology about the correspondence is a little off. Radhaji wrote her strong words (as you put it) in RESPONSE to Dr. Elst’s criticism of her in Rejoinder: The Art of Making Enemies, not before.
At any rate, I find this attack from Dr. Elst quite puzzling. A friend who is quite liberal and reasonable (not your rah rah type) asked me why the Elst article from 2007 was being dredged up now. I had no answer except to assume that it was a belated reply to the bill in the British Parliament which made caste a part of race.
SO WHY NOW ?
Perhaps the word ‘attack’ is too strong. But my articles are reflecting the puzzling question of why Dr. Elst continues to lecture/hector Hindus for alleged failings, such as not taking up cudgels against the asuric forces. He has done a good job. Let us proceed with ours.
Dr. Rajaram, the asuric forces include both the white Christian Church AND the Islamists. This has been written about recently by Indian authors. We have all been writing about the pre colonial, colonial, and present day Churchists. The writers have included Radha Rajan (who uses the accurate term the Generic Church), myself, Sandhya Jain, Ishwarji, AND Dr. Elst.
Both the generic Church and the Islamists are a danger.
For everybody’s information : my recent article ‘It is imperative that Hindus don’t get distracted’ and Dr Elst’s ‘Rejoinder : The Art of Making Enemies’ has now appeared in Sookta Sumana. I had a note from the editor saying that these debates are important.
The chapter may/may not be closed as yet Sandhyaji. My two points are :
1. Non Hindus who are sympathetic to the Hindu cause should continue on their own trajectory, and stop lecturing Hindus.
2. Hindus in turn should continue on their own trajectory. We have our own tried and tested methods and we should pursue them, while keeping an open mind to suggestions (not lectures) from non Hindu well wishers.
And in conclusion : Veda-Agama will not be defeated, now or ever. It has lasted several millenia under extremely challenging circumstances and will continue.
However, the asuric forces will try to ensure that the aam admi will suffer .
Hence, both non Hindus sympathetic to the Hindus cause and the Hindus themselves have to close this chapter of talking at cross purposes and get on with our respective tasks.
Hence, too, unless some new topic comes up for discussion from the non Hindu side, I personally will not be writing about the recent debate. Let us hope that this does bring closure to an unfortunate chapter that was precipated by the Elst article of 2007.
LikeLike
Strong words and polemics don’t help anyone, Radhaji, logical arguments do. I admire both the ‘teacher’ and the ‘student’, but I find Elst’s arguments have logic, they should not be dismissed as a white Christian propaganda. Your hate for democracy and love for Jati don’t gel with the modern times.
LikeLike
Radha,
I am intrigued that your personal email to Swami Devananda, with copies to some others, elicited such a speedy response from Koenraad Elst, and got printed as an article by Bharata Bharati, when the larger audience of that website would simply not understand the context. That the quotations are selective is besides the point, because polemicists always do that.
This follows closely on the heels of some spiteful comments made by Swami Devananda to me personally after I carried Israel Shamir’s article on Pussy Riots, though that position was also held by other Western writers, in Guardian, for instance [which correspondence I have not shared with anyone so far, inc. you, though then also there was an attack on you personally, and Elst has now articulated that in full].
This brings me to an old theme of mine – which you may recall when I expressed reservations when you and Haran asked me to carry Swami ji’s attack on a white sect he did not like – that many white persons who appear sympathetic to Hindus in India, and even claim conversion to the dharma, etc, are actually just typical white mercenaries or agents who infiltrate Hindu society on account of its famed hospitality. I have privately given you several examples which you may recall, and you know your own anger with Hindus who opened their doors to Rev Clooney.
That Elst and Swami ji are close to each other and share correspondence and ideas and synergise their purposes shows that both have POLITICAL objectives in India, which is understandable for Elst as he hails from a family of Catholic priests, but startling in the case of Swami ji who is supposed to be a Hindu renunciate of many decades. Swami ji also very shockingly exposed himself as embedded with the American Hindu agenda – and surely also white – when he accused me of having some personal frustrations against PIOs. He did not explain but it is the old vulgar charge from Rajiv Malhotra who does not know me well at all and must have regretted it because he tried to worm his way back into my circuit sometime after, which you know about, but I simply ignored him.
So these recent exchanges mean that – both Ishwar Sharan and Koenraad Elst are deeply embedded in the white political project that is now trying to literally crush the whole world any which way, and is showing a naked face because of desperation as the imperial project has been embarked upon in a time of economic stress and absence of popular support from their own societies because capitalism has sucked every home literally. The troops are missing, American soldiers return home crying ‘betrayal’ and Europe has no stomach for landmines and other disasters in Afghanistan… countries can be crushed with air power but holding the ground after that is another story, as America already knows in Iraq, Afghanistan, and will again discover in Syria, and so on…
The real soldiers left are to the new White Christian Imperial project are the paid media and the paid intellectuals, and that is the crux of the diatribe, which should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
The attack on me has been subsumed in an attack on all Vijayvaani authors. This fully gives the game away. As you remember when I discussed the idea of setting up an independent website – Vijayvaani was conceived as Hindu- and India-centric, but was to include writers from the West who were fighting the evil western imperial project. They too were excluded from mainstream media in their own societies and had taken recourse to reaching out via their own websites. They have together generated sufficient discomfort to warrant quests for internet censorship, which endeavour has fructified most notably in the manhunt against Julian Assange, on which issue both our current ‘heroes’ have maintained interesting silence.
The Vijayvaani writers who have caused maximum discomfort to the imperial-racial clique include the scholarly Michel Chossudovsky, Israel Shamir, Peter Eyre, Peter Myers, William Blum, Leuren Moret, Mahdi Nazemroaya, to name only a few.
Elst has given the game away by virtually stating that there was supposed to be a Hindu-Christian-Jew alliance against Islam and Muslims. I can’t think of anything more gruesome than India joining hands with the racist-imperialists in the genocide of the Muslim world, and the attack on Vijayvaani is nothing more than an attempt to make me fall in line on this project, which is a shame and a failure.
One could go on, but I think we need say no more. Bhagwan Sri Krishna said one’s own humble dharma was better than doing the elevated dharma of others. Both Ishwar Sharan and Koenraad Elst must realise that they had no business to try to do Hindu Dharma for Hindus in India, and that they have been caught out trying to superimpose the white racial Christian imperialism upon India and Hindu society, which has been understood to be the impertinence that it is.
Let us close this chapter now.
Sandhya
LikeLike
There has been a cynical attempt to provoke a section of Hindu thinkers simply as grist for the mill of keeping a website going with sensationalism.
First an old article by Dr. Koenraad Elst is put up on BharataBharati without mention of when the article was written. The Editor, a non-Indian Hindu living in India for several decades now cannot pretend that he did not know the extreme sensitivity of the issues raised in the article by Dr. Elst.
And yet he retrieved it on the lame pretext that he suspects more attacking articles on Hindu dharma’s organic institutions like jaati, varna and kula are underway. Maybe and again, maybe not.
Even if we take the editor’s explanation at face value, then surely retrieving an article critical of Hindu intellectuals is wrong war strategy considering that some of the best writings on our varna and jaati dharma has come from Hindu intellectuals rooted in our dharma and who are not only inward looking but also have a sound knowledge of geo politics and how the White race uses “caste” for its geo political ends.
The role of the editor of Bharata Bharati must necessarily come under scrutiny because there is palpable discomfiture about my criticism of the white race and its relentless pursuit of world dominance.
The white race is a political entity which has used politics to further its religion and used religion to further its politics. More importantly it has used political instruments to do racism and used racism to do politics.
For Ishwar Sharan and Dr. Elst to bemoan my critic of the white race and accuse me of “ignoring” the brown church only exposes their own shortcomings as intellectuals. As non-Indian Hindus and Hindu “sympathiseres” they are sending the signal that they will walk with us for only as long as we do not look even from the corner of our eyes at the white race and its past and present depradations.
The white race has not ceased from its manic desire to bring all the world under its feet either directly under the White Church thru religious conversion and demographic aggression or as vassal/slave countries of the White State. Look around the world all of you and see what is happening in every corner of the globe.
The white race will use sections of the target people to turn against their own and eventually serve their religious and political ends. This has been the bitter experience of the Hindus of this bhumi who have seen their own leaders allow gtheir bhumi to be partitioned.Inter-religious dialogue, forceful imposition of democracy are contemporary weapons of war where the objective is to propel as leaders of the target country individuals who will be pro-white — either pro white church or white state.
Dr. Elst must surely know that the muslim league succeeded only because the imperial british government had already decided to partition every country in Asia and the Hindu political leadership was not only clueless about how to deal with the muslim league they also did not know how to deal with the british government.
Hindus must never lose sight of the fact that we lost territory. We did not lose because the muslim league partitioned the bhumi. We lost territory because we did not defend and protect our territory both against the msulims and the white government.
All those who picked up arms against the enemy and those who destroyed the enemy intellectually were removed forcibly from public life. Isn’t Dr. Elst’s article an echo of something similar?
Dr. Elst’s perspective on the muslims, the white race, the white church and white state is natural. But to say Hindu intellectuals must also subscribe to his perspective is unnatural not to say intriguing.
I have no desire to make friends or enemies. Speaking for myself I relate to humans only when compelled to do so for the ideas they represent or propagate.
To reduce thinkers to the personal domain is clever war strategy but will not work. This undermines an important criterion when waging war – to look at the enemy as monolith. Gandhi’s crime was that he exhorted Hindus and his political vehicle the INC not to look at our enemies as monolith. He reduced the enemy to personal relationships; worse, his personal relationships.
Contemporary white political weapons of war include freedom of religion and democracy. The white race – its church and state is pouring money into India’s brown church and brown adherents. Just go to the vigil website which has reproduced the ministry of home affairs fcra website details about the quantum of money the white race is pouring into india which is empowering the brown church.
The century when individuals were converting because of untouchability is past. Today people are converting because the brown church is throwing white money at us to gather people into their army for the war to conquer the world for christ.
Sensitive Hindus and India’s polity is waging war against untouchability and serious issues are not dealt with keeping PR in mind or the white race and its vicious anti-Hindu posturing in mind.
If the editor of Bharata Bharati is indeed a dasanami sanyasi he should try and look at what contemporary weapons the white race, the white church and white state are using against Hindus including witless jihadis. And Dr. Elst must give up his desire to make Hindu intellectuals see the whole world thru his lens.
Not that this is a salve for my critic of Dr. Elst but it was he who inspired me to take to combative political writing. Only I do it as a politically conscious Hindu nationalist. The teacher must take pride when his student makes a mark with her work which seems to rattle certain corridors of power.
LikeLike
I find this demonization of the supposed ‘White Christian’ enemies of Hinduism to be frivolous and irresponsible. Hindu India is now engaged in an existential struggle against the forces of Islam. Assam is only the beginning. Worse, the Muslim leadership expects Hindu India to support their cause just as the Ali Brothers during the Khilafat threatened Hindus with Jihad if they did not join the Afghan invaders in re-establishing Islamic rule in India.
There are now similar threats against India and the present Sonia-Manmohan clique — let alone that effeminate mama’s boy Rahul — is not strong enough to resist it. They may capitulate and then rationalize the way Mahatma Gandhi did.
Point: people engaged in Jihad against India are not any White Christian Devils but people of the same race as us. Don’t trivialize the danger by turning this existential religious war into a race war against an imaginary if not a non-existent enemy.
It is comical to try to picture Koenraad as a White Christian out to subjugate Hindus. Hindus don’t need his help to subjugate themselves when they can do it themselves. Just go and take a look at 10 Janpath.
This pointless polemic against this imaginary monster is best a catharisis for frustrated souls, and worst a distraction that helps our real enemy — Islamic aggression.
LikeLike
Dr. Elst has made an in-depth critique of Christianity in his book Psychology of Prophetism: A Secular Look at the Bible which is available on-line for anyone to read.
In fact the article on this site which has provoked an unprecedented personal attack on him from a number of self-styled Hindu spokespersons, Dalits and racism in anti-Hindu propaganda, is part of his life-long study of the asuric Christian mentality. In the article Dr. Elst has clearly shown how Christians rationalise their centuries of imperialism and violence against non-Christians and suggested that understanding this Christian superior-than-thou mentality may help Hindus in their fight against Christian imperialism in India.
But this very astute analysis of the Christian mentality was ignored or otherwise lost and Dr. Elst came under attack from Radha Rajan and others when in fact these very Hindu intellectuals should have been the first and most understanding of what he had to say.
Surely you will agree Dr. Rajiva that Dr. Elst has a right to reply to his most vociferous of detractors, who in her latest comment has made the most unkind personal cut against him.
LikeLike